Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

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Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by GD on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 1:08 pm

An independent review of Jersey's waste strategy has raised serious questions about the size of the planned energy from waste incinerator.

It could be far too big and that, say the report's authors, could cause serious problems for running the plant.

Jersey has opted for what's called a moving grate incinerator with a capacity for handling around 160,000 tonnes of waste every year - more than double the capacity of the Bellozanne incinerator.

Juniper - a firm of specialist consultants hired by the Environment Scrutiny Panel - says the type of incinerator planned needs to be fed a constant stream of material. They warn that if the rubbish stream becomes too small, serious operational problems arise.

Jersey is committed to reducing volumes of rubbish and parishes could arbitrarily stop sending some of their waste for incineration. Kitchen and green waste can quickly be turned into compost in one of a new breed of in-vessel plants.

Other materials can be collected, sorted and exported - as Cardiff City Council have been doing in recent years to meet a Welsh Assembly target of 65% recycling.

There's agreement that an incinerator of some sort will be needed, but Juniper believe the island should look at a much smaller more versatile plant which can be scaled up or down according to the volumes of rubbish being created


Typical States buying something which is going to end up costing a fortune to run...


Last edited by GD on Sat 14 Feb 2009, 10:06 am; edited 7 times in total


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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by kat on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 2:17 pm

We also need to make this a priority very soon
The time has come and our space is running out
do we share one with jersey or do we go buy a biggun and import rubbish..making us money
We need to address this very soon
we have new members in our government who have the knowledge to find out what is best for us
I only hope it happens as soon as possible for us to have the best environment friendly crap eating machine we can afford
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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by Thistle on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 6:36 pm

when the incinerator eats up all the rubbish you are left with contaminated waste that would need shipping off island thereby costing money.so yes we will need to look at an incinerator but we need to look closely at the mistakes made in other jurisdictions before a decision is made .
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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by Digger on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 6:44 pm

I agree we do need to sort something out but to import rubbish a definite no no imo , as i have said many times we need to recycle more as much as possible in fact then possibly build a cheaper smaller incinerator to deal with the rest .

When i say recycle i mean all things that people have no use for anymore ,like the one set up at Longue Houge but much bigger and including absolutely everything . Along with kerbside we could be n to a winner.


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Doubts over plan for new plant

Post by GD on Mon 30 Jun 2008, 12:30 pm

New guidelines released by the EU may mean the new waste plant proposed for Jersey could be obsolete before it is even built.
In order to meet the latest EU proposals, the efficiency rate of a plant must be higher than 65%.
However Deputy Rob du Hamel said: "The proposed plant at La Collette would only have an efficiency rating of around 24%".
The new information will be circulated to States members later.
It is proposed by States members that the ageing Bellozanne incinerator will eventually be replaced by a new plant at La Collette (from bbconline)

Why does this not surprise me....


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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by Nick Palmer on Mon 30 Jun 2008, 3:22 pm

TTS' position is plain stupid. They have stonewalled
alternatives for years which would be smaller, cheaper, more flexible and ultimately far more environmentally sustainable than a new incinerator. A new incinerator only makes the slightest sense whatsoever if one is only looking at the next five years or so. Any longer and TTS' reasoning is just idiotic - it takes no account at all of the necessity to develop sustainable ways of development and how that will impact on the generation and treatment of "waste" over the next thirty years (which is the planned lifespan of any replacement plant...). The independent Juniper report makes this very clear...

see my two articles on the Radio Jersey website
http://www.bbc.co.uk/jersey/content/articles/2008/05/28/sc_waste_nickpalmer_p1_feature.shtml

and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/jersey/content/articles/2008/05/28/sc_waste_nickpalmer_p2_feature.shtml
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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by Pegasus on Wed 02 Jul 2008, 8:09 pm

Nick Palmer wrote:TTS' position is plain stupid. They have stonewalled
alternatives for years which would be smaller, cheaper, more flexible and ultimately far more environmentally sustainable than a new incinerator. A new incinerator only makes the slightest sense whatsoever if one is only looking at the next five years or so. Any longer and TTS' reasoning is just idiotic - it takes no account at all of the necessity to develop sustainable ways of development and how that will impact on the generation and treatment of "waste" over the next thirty years (which is the planned lifespan of any replacement plant...). The independent Juniper report makes this very clear...
Hey come on since when has any states department saved money?
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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by Nick Palmer on Thu 03 Jul 2008, 1:32 pm

[/quote]Hey come on since when has any states department saved money?[/quote]

I was just dreaming! I sort of hoped they might want to save some money - I wasn't expecting all the environmental arguments to make much impression, even though they are blindingly obvious...

Have a look at the long version (4,500 words) of my argument which Isthisjersey have just published on their front page.
http://www.isthisjersey.com/news.php

It's long and wordy and somehat repetitious but it does cover a lot of territory, some of it virtually unknown outside of environmental circles. It sort of proves the environmental, sustainable argument mathematically and knocks a fatal hole in the indefinite, exponential growth apologists' position.

BTW, I am not a fan of "sound bite" spin... so, sometimes, my explanation of points can get rather lengthy and I try to write so that just about anyone can understand them, not just experts - "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" - Bob Dylan
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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by Nick Palmer on Thu 03 Jul 2008, 1:52 pm

GD wrote:New guidelines released by the EU may mean the new waste plant proposed for Jersey could be obsolete before it is even built.
In order to meet the latest EU proposals, the efficiency rate of a plant must be higher than 65%.
However Deputy Rob du Hamel said: "The proposed plant at La Collette would only have an efficiency rating of around 24%".

This is because the EU say that incinerators should not be run unless the waste heat from the generators is used in district heating schemes to warm nearby buildings and provide hot water. The laws of thermodynamics say that an ordinary incinerator can only convert a maximum of around a third of the energy from burning waste into electricity - the rest is waste heat.

Having any new incinerator at La Collette probaby rules out a district heating scheme because it is too far away from large buildings and the town. As I have pointed out all over the place, with those other modular technologies that produce syngas (synthesis gas - largely hydrogen and carbon monoxide) it is possible to use the gas elsewhere from where it is generated - large buildngs, such as hotels, or the Waterfront finance district skyscrapers, could have their own CHP (combined heat and power) generators. Syngas can also be easily catalysed into synthetic diesel, displacing fossil fuel imports. Electricity from an incinerator, however, would only displace electricity from France, which is low carbon nuclear energy, so wouldn't impact on Jersey's first order carbon footprint much, or at all...

Nick
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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by Nick Palmer on Thu 03 Jul 2008, 5:58 pm



Sorry for cross posting this from the "isthisjersey" comments on my wordy incinerator article but it is a very important point. It's been suggested before, amongst those of us who are campaigning for TTS to see sense, but not much in public.

I would like to state for the record that a modern incinerator would not lead to atmospheric pollution problems. What would come out of the stack would indeed be very clean, and so would the stack gases of any of the other technologies but there is always the bottom ash and fly ash to consider too. These twin residues are largely as toxic or otherwise as the materials that are burnt. If you don't want heavy metals in the fly ash then don't burn materials containing them, such as batteries, electronic circuits, certain types of painted item etc

There is no getting away from the fact that if one wants to reduce toxic pollution coming out of a waste plant, the best way is to avoid putting toxic items into it! This, however, suggests that we need waste to be separated first and if one is doing that anyway, it might as well be recycled because most of the costs and inconvenience are at this stage...

Not widely appreciated is that although a new incinerator will have very low emissions of dioxins and furans, the way they do this is by temperature control of the combustion chamber. Should there be a particularly wet bit of rubbish going through, then the temperature of the chamber will fall outside the range that avoids
the formation of dioxins etc. When this happens, fossil fuelled burners fire up to raise the temperature again - yes, that's right! - a new incinerator will actually INCREASE Jersey's carbon footprint (pyrolysis plants do not have this problem by design).

As I have already pointed out, any electricity generated from a new incinerator will only displace low carbon nuclear electricity from France so will contribute little or nothing to reducing our first order carbon footprint but conversely the pollution control mechanisms will actually increase our footprint...

In years to come this flaw will become much more significant - as paper, card, tyres, wood and plastics are taken out of the waste stream for recycling etc, there would be precious little burnable material left to counter the "wet" food waste - the pollution control burners may then be operating for a very considerable portion of the time just to actually burn the residual material at a sufficiently high temperature (that the waste would no longer be capable of achieving on its own) - our carbon footprint would skyrocket!!


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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by Pegasus on Fri 04 Jul 2008, 10:36 pm

Yeah but the States will still buy it, they only think of today, never tommorow
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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by Nick Palmer on Sat 05 Jul 2008, 1:01 am

Pegasus wrote:Yeah but the States will still buy it, they only think of today, never tommorow

Are you proud to have a cynical attitude like that? It's only people who seem to rejoice in their cynicism, while doing nothing, who allow a lot of things to carry on happening.
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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by Nick Palmer on Sat 05 Jul 2008, 3:50 pm

Nick Palmer wrote:


When this happens, fossil fuelled burners fire up to raise the temperature again - yes, that's right! - a new incinerator will actually INCREASE Jersey's carbon footprint (pyrolysis plants do not have this problem by design).

I should clarify this point. Pyrolysis plant can need auxiliary heating when the calorific value of the material falls below a certain point but they usually use the gas from the gasification phase both to dry the material and pyrolyse it. Where the pyrolysis system scores is in its modularity - low calorific value (wetter waste) can be treated in one module while the higher value waste continues being processed at high efficiency in other modules without being "dragged down". The fact that "wetter" waste is probably better treated by anaerobic digestion or composting in the first place really starts to show the reason why incineration of unsorted Municipal solid waste (MSW) is a thoroughly bad idea.
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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by GD on Thu 10 Jul 2008, 12:14 pm

Government funds will be used to pay for Jersey's new incinerator at La Collette.

The Energy from Waste plant will cost a hundred and six million pounds.

The States voted to go-ahead with it yesterday. They had planned to borrow the money.

But the Treasury Minister Terry Le Sueur told members he'd found the funds to pay for it.

He said it would be cheaper than borrowing. (from Channel103)

Well it makes more sense...


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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by Spirit on Thu 10 Jul 2008, 12:21 pm

more sense than what?
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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by GD on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 1:12 pm

Its claimed Jerseys new incinerator at La Collette could cost an extra one million pounds.

The Constable of St Helier Simon Crowcroft says thats down to a decision by the Planning and Environment Minster Freddie Cohen to involve Hopkins architects with the project.

Constable Crowcroft was initially against the new incinerator and says the extra million pounds of tax payers money could be better spent elsewhere.

But Senator Cohen say the decision to commision Hopkins was taken by Transport and Technical Services.

He has said though that he's committed to buildings of high quality and architects who can deliver his vision.

Constable Crowcroft now intends to lodge a proposition to delay work at La Collette, and says a public enquiry is needed.(from CIonline)


Well there's a suprise!!!



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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by st_ouennais on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 5:34 pm

History would suggest a near miracle were it to do anything other than very significantly overrun the initial cost

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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by Pegasus on Wed 23 Jul 2008, 8:38 pm

I agree st-ouennais

I cannot see that ths cost's would be lower
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Major flaw in proposed new incinerator could cost more

Post by GD on Fri 29 Aug 2008, 2:09 pm

St. Helier's Constable's trying again to force a public debate on plans to build a new incinerator at La Collette.

Simon Crowcroft's making another attempt at getting a public inquiry.

We're already on our way to getting a new incinerator to replace the one at Bellozanne.

Before the summer break states members agreed to a controversial 106 million pound waste to energy plant.

And it's already been giving in-princple planning permission.

But constable crowcroft's still determined there should be a public inquiry before full planning permission's granted.

The Planning Minister refused his last request. (from Channel 103)


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16,000 tons of rubbish rotting at La Collette

Post by GD on Mon 15 Sep 2008, 1:20 pm

Problems with Jersey's waste incinerator have left sixteen thousand tons of rubbish stored at La Collette.

Emergency repair work at Belozanne meant it was out of action for several weeks earlier this year.

Waste was instead taken to La Collette and is only now beginning to be cleared.
A thousand tons of putrescible or decaying rubbish is being moved to Belozanne this week because it has started smelling and needs to be burned.

Transport and Technical Services says it will be taken there in covered lorries during the afternoon and evenings when tarffic levels are quieter and to avoid disruption to normal parish waste deliveries.

The operation is expected to take several days and its not known when the non-putrescible waste will be transfered.(from CIonline)


Oh dear...



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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by GD on Wed 24 Sep 2008, 8:02 pm

An air pollution expert from the UK says Jersey's Government is putting islander's health at risk, by allowing a new incinerator to be built.

Dr Dick Van-Steenis says people here are already more likely to get certain types of cancer and suffer from depression.

He blames that on pollution from the existing site at Bellozanne. He also claims that the planned new incinerator will be no better and could even be worse than the current one.

Transport & Technical services dispute the view and say they that they are pressing ahead with the plans.
(from CIonline)


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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by GD on Thu 25 Sep 2008, 12:53 pm

Although the Solicitor General has ruled there can't be a public inquiry into the new incinerator - the Planning minister says it's not too late for islanders to have their say.

Senator Freddie Cohen has agreed in principle that the new incinerator should go at La Collette.

But the final details - such as the design and size - have not been discussed yet. That will happen over the next few months (from channelonline)


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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by GD on Fri 26 Sep 2008, 9:46 am

Final plans for a new Energy from Waste (EfW) incinerator at La Collette in Jersey have been unveiled.

Outline planning permission was granted last May, but details about the building's appearance and landscaping around it have now been confirmed.

The plant, designed by Hopkins Architects Limited, will be enclosed in a box design with an exposed roof structure.

The proposals will now be considered by Planning Minister Freddie Cohen.

The States said two public meetings would be held in October to give islanders the opportunity to find out more and comment on the proposals.

Glass sides

These will be held in St Helier on Thursday 9 October at 1900 BST at St Paul's Centre and on Sunday 12 October at 1400 BST at the Ommaroo Hotel.

Will Gardiner, the States director of waste strategy, told BBC News glass would be used at either end of the plant.

"This will reduce the bulk to the viewer and also enables us to see inside the building to the way the process plant works," he said.

The proposed £75m plant is due to replace the Bellozanne incinerator.

It is expected to improve air quality, generate electricity for about 8,000 homes and have an active life of up to 30 years.

John Richardson from Transport and Technical Services said the new EfW plant would adhere to the very latest technical and environmental standards, providing Jersey with a reliable waste disposal solution.

"We have also paid great attention to the external aspect of the building and site and used building and landscape architects of the highest calibre to achieve the best possible quality facility with the minimum impact on the landscape," he said. (from BBC news)


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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by Pegasus on Fri 26 Sep 2008, 12:49 pm

Well maybe with "New" blood being elected the States might try to sort this out, but on reflection maybe not, the "New" boys will soon be brow-beaten under the regime
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Re: Incinerator latest - £4.4m consultancy costs

Post by GD on Fri 26 Sep 2008, 3:50 pm

A new Energy from Waste incinerator in Jersey could cost more if plans are not given final approval by the end of October, a deputy has warned.

The French firm given the £106m building contract agreed to fix the price until the end of October.

But Deputy Guy De Faye has warned that any delay could force up the cost of the incinerator.

The plant at La Collette will replace the Bellozanne plant and will generate electricity for about 8,000 homes.

Health fears

Mr De Faye's warning came amid concerns about the affects on islanders' health, including breast cancer, from the incinerator's emissions.

But the island's medical officer of health has written to States members claiming the La Collette plant will have an overall positive effect on health in Jersey.

The note says the new plant will be more efficient, producing much lower emissions, than the current incinerator at Bellozanne (from BBC News)


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