Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

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Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by GD on Wed 28 Oct 2009, 11:00 pm



Education Minister James Reed may be recalled to give evidence to the panel

SECONDARY school head teachers could be forced to explain why problem pupils and their parents are being ‘badly failed’ by the system.
This week it has been claimed in a Scrutiny panel hearing that the suspension policy of schools in the Island is ‘flawed’ and now the panel wants to hear from head teachers directly.
And if they refuse to attend the public hearing they could be subpoenaed by the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny sub-panel. The JEP has also learned that Education Minister James Reed and his director Mario Lundy could be recalled to give evidence to the panel.
Last week both the minister and his director attended the Scrutiny hearing to give their views about the suspension policy. They admitted that there was a breakdown in communication between schools and parents when students were suspended but said that the new draft policy would improve the situation.(from Jep)


......THE BOSS......

"Always be yourself because the people who mind don't matter, and the people who matter don't mind"

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by kingcolemk on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 9:15 am

'Problem' pupils and their parents are failed by one thing, and one thing only.......................themselves ! Not the school.

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by kat on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 9:27 am

you are wrong there King colemk....until you actually have a problem child yourself you will not know both sides of the story..the system fails because the easy option is to get rid of the problem by sending them home .this start a circle .the kids know if the misbehave they will be given a extra holiday and NOTHING the parents do will help as we all know children cannot be given a smack .
until you are in a situation like this dont judge .
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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by kingcolemk on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 9:39 am

There is always someone to make excuses for the little devils. it's never their fault is it ?

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by technophobe on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 9:59 am

kingcolemk wrote:There is always someone to make excuses for the little devils. it's never their fault is it ?

So presumably you think that children with behavioural problems, mental health issues etc don't exist?

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by kat on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 11:30 am

there are many with problems now .if only there was a way to cure it .
sometimes it is not there fault and folks who pint the finger dont help at all
all i can say is dont throw stones as you never know when it will come bouncing back in your house
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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by karma on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 12:38 pm

kingcolemk wrote:There is always someone to make excuses for the little devils. it's never their fault is it ?

We have been here before! It is easy enough to blame the parents! So I ask again - if it is the fault of the parents how come out of two children one had mega problems (and at 40 is still a worry) and the other has hardly caused her (late) father and I a night's loss of sleep....is well adjusted, settled and content (can't asked more than that for your kids) - when the problematical one was 13 - they (the children's board) took him away and he was placed in Greenfields because even though I took him to school every day (from St Martin's to Beauchamp) he would waved goodbye, walk through the school and out the door at the other end......every day in Greenfields he was 'let loose' to kick his heels (with friends) until he was allowed back in in late afternoon - at the end of a 3 month stay they called us to a meeting and said they could do no more with him and we took him back home - nothing was acheived by this excercise - he just knew how to 'play the system' after that spell in a 'supervised' environment......So Kingcolemk unless you know all the facts of every problem child - to be so judgemental only serves to make you appear at best 'smug' and at worst 'intolerant' !
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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by kat on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 1:14 pm

Karma i agree with everything you say ..there is now a new school opening very soon ,i hope these children will be able to get the eduction they need and parents will be supported all the way as it is so tough on all and I know that from experience
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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by kingcolemk on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 1:24 pm

You are all talking about a small number of the so called problem children who may have a genuine problem. But in my view the majority of the trouble making 'problem' children are just sheltering behind your liberal attitudes.

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by technophobe on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 2:09 pm

kingcolemk wrote:You are all talking about a small number of the so called problem children who may have a genuine problem. But in my view the majority of the trouble making 'problem' children are just sheltering behind your liberal attitudes.

Bring back the birch eh?

Clown.

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by Deebay on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 2:15 pm

What precisely do they mean by "problem children". In the posts that followed, kids with (1)mental health issues, (2)behavioral problems and (3)troublemakers were all mentioned. I think that #2 can be a result of either #1 or #3. If the child has behavioral problems as a result of mental health problems, they should be referred to a specialist anyway. Schools are (or should be) places of education and as such are not equipped to deal with special requirements (except in schools purposely designed for such cases).
While it may not always be the fault of parents in the case of "troublemakers", as Karma pointed out (I have personally known many with model parents and home life that have gone off the rails), the continued shift of responsibility from the parents to the state (including schools) does not help in the least. Teachers are expected to be the nannies and police of children, many of whom have no interest or intention of learning. At the same time, they are limited in their powers of punishment by legislation. As I see it, they have no recourse but to suspend them for the good of other pupils. Some schools in the UK now provide free breakfast for pupils, regardless of family circumstances or income. Surely, the nourishment of a child is one of the basic requirements of being a parent. Another commonly used excuse is hyperactivity. I hear it all the time. Little Johnny, running around, being a nuisance to everyone, while the parent excuses it away. Question. Why, after most of the offending "E's" and additives have been removed, are there more "hyperactive" children than there were when I was a kid, consuming tons of the stuff? Answer - Discipline!

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by kingcolemk on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 3:01 pm

Thank you DeeBay for explaining what I am trying to say, much, much better than I could.

Technophobe, there has never been birching in schools in modern times. The impliment that was used was the cane, and damn effictive it was with most of us. So don't try your lefty spin with me.

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by technophobe on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 4:35 pm

My lefty spin!?!?

When I was at school I had the slipper, the plimsoll and the cane (at different times!!). It was vastly preferable to other punishments i.e. squads, which could waste a couple of hours of social time. I preferred a mildly sore backside every time, it didn't hurt particularly and the pain didn't last that long.

That doesn't necessarily mean that I think that hitting a child is the most effective form of punishment, in fact I think the reverse is pretty much true.

I do however accept that a number of people still believe that beating children is a good thing, my question to them would be "where does it stop?". For instance, you have a badly behaved child (who incidentally is quite probably living in a hostile environment, with abusive parents) and as a form of punishment he (or she) gets given the slipper, which doesn't work. Next time it's the plimsoll, which doesn't work. Next time it's the cane, which doesn't work. What's next? Public lashes? A damn good beating? Please enlighten me, I'm there to be convinced.

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by bug1 on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 4:59 pm

Like Karma I have 2 children(now grown)whose behavior was totally different but I still say the parents of any child are ultimately responsible for their behavior whether successfully turning them into responsible adults or otherwise.And they did need the occasional whack(1 a lot more so than the other) but I don't consider myself abusive but responsible.
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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by Deebay on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 5:03 pm

I attended a strict, old-fashioned style (nothing wrong with that) Grammar School, where in my experience the teachers that resorted to the cane, bunsen-burner tube, board compasses, yard rule etc, were the ones who had lost control (or had a worrying power complex). I've never been a supporter of physical punishment, there are other effective methods. However, things have gone from one extreme to the other. From the days when a parent would say "You probably deserved a caning" to complaining about a suspension for misbehaving. A while ago I saw an article about a parent who complained to the education authority about a teacher who forced a pupil to stand in the corner of the room for misbehaving. They called it "an attack on his dignity" or "humiliating" or some such thing. What hope is there when the parent/s of naughty children (for want of a better phrase) stick by them instead of punishing them?

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Re: Schools ‘failing problem pupils’

Post by karma on Thu 29 Oct 2009, 5:52 pm

bug1 wrote:Like Karma I have 2 children(now grown)whose behavior was totally different but I still say the parents of any child are ultimately responsible for their behavior whether successfully turning them into responsible adults or otherwise.And they did need the occasional whack(1 a lot more so than the other) but I don't consider myself abusive but responsible.

Yes, I agree and Mr Knight the Headmaster at Beauchamp did all in his power to help - also told me that if it wasn't for the fact that he saw me 'deliver' my son on a daily basis we would have been in trouble for his non attendance at school....silly thing is my son is very intelligent and could have done almost anything with himself - but that is a whole bunch of 'if only' which I wont dwell on - he also had an Italian father who doted on him!!!!
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