Legal Highs to be banned

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Legal Highs to be banned

Post by GD on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 10:55 am

It looks like legal highs could be banned within the next two years, Geoff Mahy Home minister said it could be sooner.

Lets hope so...


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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by wayside on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 11:11 am

I really do not see why it cant be done sooner, I suppose we will have to wait until someone dies because of legal highs for them to get a shift on.
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by Fast Robert on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 11:51 am

yeah, because once it's banned no one will admit what they've been doing and go back to blaming the booze, which it always invariably is anyway.

Pint of whisky anyone?

Wahay!

I think all cars should be banned because some people can't handle them.
I think all sports should be banned because my mate broke his neck at school in a tackle.
Flash photography on TV?
Epilectics?

Christ?

etc etc
why is your moral outrage somehow more valid than anyone else's? There is no logic around any of the debate.

People look for some petty reason why 'society is broken', find some minor issue and then scream from the rooftops that the world is going to end.

I contest the fact that Spice is causing any more problems than there are already. We must stop blaming the thing and start asking why kids want to get so out of it, so consistently.

Prohibition is one of the problems.

Sure, ban it from view and from public spaces, but stopping folk indulging in private activities in private spaces is a rocky road. Think of the outcry if folk were told to stop smoking fags full stop?

So why is it alright for tobacco users, nicotine addicts smoking known carcinogens in the flavouring and texturising agents, known poisons all, to mount high profile campaigns all around the world backed by major business cash?

People always moan on about inconsistencies when politicians say things and do others etc etc yet it seems that society is willing to help them stay away from truth by getting all emotional and morally susceptible to tabloid generalisations on issues like this.

in the sixties (in the UK) you could get prescribed medical grade diamorphine from the nhs if you were a registered addict. Controlled toxicity, controlled amounts, monitored health. Yet we are reminded constantly how much better things were in the olden days, kids more polite, front doors left open etc.

Make up your mind, older generation in charge.
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by kiwis kitten on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 11:59 am

Fast Robert.....just one question...

have u ever tried spice???




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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by technophobe on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 1:34 pm

wayside wrote:I really do not see why it cant be done sooner, I suppose we will have to wait until someone dies because of legal highs for them to get a shift on.

Millions of people worldwide die each year from legal highs, namely alcohol and cigarettes. Remind me again what your business is Wayside?

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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by wayside on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 1:49 pm

Selling Furniture actually, but you are probably talking about my Wifes hotel

We all know that in excess alcohol is not good for you but in moderation has no known ill effects as far as I know.

Smoking is different and if it was reasonable to expect people not to smoke after years of addiction I would ban that as well however I think in 50 years time people will wonder why there ancestors ever smoked.

Legal Highs are another issue I have seen someone try and stab someone when high on spice and would have if others had not intervened also that very person 1 year later admitted he was stupid to smoke the stuff and no longer does.
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by Fast Robert on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 3:21 pm

Yep, wayside. As far as you know.
So there are no stories of the immediate consequences of drunkeness in the Press? The smashed skulls and comatose women lining the exits of town on a sat night are all just people having fun and enjoying themselves?

KK, personal experience must be excluded from decisions made around substance abuse. Pictures of an end-game smack addict desperately trying to find a vein is not necessarily the whole picture. Dopeheads wasting in front of daytime TV are not typical marijuana users. Aging hippies dropping some shrooms at solstice are not contributing to 'feral baby factories', or any other rubbish spewed up by knowledgeless hacks in the Mail or Express.

Drugs are dangerous. Danger is mitigated by honesty and education. Know the risks, make a decision. Banning things just makes it a million times harder to engage in rational conversation.

I saw a tramp get killed by another pissed up tramp. Head split when it hit the kerb. It was a truly shocking sound. They were drinking cans of beer. Anecdotes like yours are part of the monday morning office routine, boasts about how many shots in how many minutes, so and so getting off with so and so but their partner's seen and all hell breaking loose etc etc

Conversely I knew a chap who had been an heroin user for decades. Never lost a job, always looked smart. Nice guy, freaky habit.
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by wayside on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 8:37 pm

There are laws relating to Alcohol which if inforced half of the problems caused by it would be sorted overnight unfortunatly some establishment will continue to serve people as long as they are handing over the money,

Thats not the case at many places especially out of town, including The Wayside Cheer Hotel, if your drunk when you arrive you wont get served and if you get too drunk you will also not get served another.

Spice and related products will get banned its just a matter of time.
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by kiwis kitten on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 8:48 pm

and in my opinion..the sooner the better !! :x




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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by killer on Mon 17 Aug 2009, 11:41 pm

kiwis kitten wrote:and in my opinion..the sooner the better !! :x


sooner the better i don't think so

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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by Fast Robert on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 12:31 am

A ban without applying the same values on all potentially harmful choices that an adult can make is just a gimmick. It doesn't solve anything. It just increases the crime statistics, makes us look like we're in control.

Spice is a cynical product that proves emphatically that prohibition does not offer any incentives to be any less inclined to take mood altering substances. Decades of restricting other drugs has not created an educated and careful society that accepts the dangers

Ban Spice and legalise cannabis. Source it, standardise it and get someone to judge when they've had enough, if that's good enough for numerous pints a few chasers and an accidental cider as a measure of being acceptably intoxicated, it'll be OK for 2 grams of hash. Package it with disclaimers and remind consumers that they are responsible for not following the recommended dosage. etc.

Cheap petrol station whisky. What's the point of it? It's a pisstake of whisky, just strong alcohol with flavourings. Don't tell me it's catering for those with little money that want to get trashed and still afford ten fags who are statistically more likely to be making their home life worse, have an insecure job, maybe debts etc.

"Oooo he'll have a hangover in the morning, bless him, he's got troubles you know, everyone needs to let off a bit of steam, hope he has a good night."

It's OK Spice users, drink booze. It's good for you! Helps the local economy.

I'm off to get me some quality birch so I can practice communicating righteous moral superiority. Something I lack, no? :)
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by killer on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 1:10 am

well if you know how to use spice properly and not over do it like people are then your fine its only when you over do the spice you get the same effects cannabis

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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by Fast Robert on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 8:22 am

The goverment don't trust you, killer, but they will trust you if you order in 5 crates of 70% vodka flavoured with industrial paint stripper from a supplier who got it from a bloke who noticed it at the back of a factory in the Gdansk red light district. Tenner, cash, no questions.

It's booze, goddamn it, we trust you.
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by Alpy on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 8:35 am

everyone knows how much tax is added to fags and booze....this is the more likely reason why these are legal......whereas Spice is still relatively new therefore if there was a sudden 5 fold increase in price would people still buy it?

I agree to a point with Fast Robert We all need a fix....and booze is probably the worst out there...but everyone in Government also gets regularly shitfaced with booze not Spice.........
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by kiwis kitten on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 8:54 am

Fast Robert.....while i agree with u to a certain extent....

I still would like to see Spice banned....

Infact its a shame alcohol and tobacco hadn't been banned years ago too....
( don't get me wrong.. i like a drink as much as anyone but it doesn't rule my life and if it wasn't there then i am sure i wouldn't miss it....I have never smoked...soo wouldn't miss that at all)

I know there is many that do not agree with me...but sorry guys...MY OPINION.....

Killer...u say Spice isn't harmful when taken sensibly....
Well.... u tell me how many 11..12...13..14 year olds take it sensibly....they all think its ok to have coz it legal....i have heard this from a mother who was out of her mind with worry because her 13 yr old daughter was taking the stuff...and her words to her mum were..

"its ok mum..its not gonna hurt me..its legal"

We can't go back in time and ban alcohol from the start... but we can stop all these new substances being "ok" to take coz its LEGAL......




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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by killer on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 9:09 am

Ok ok KK well that age they shouldn't be taking it Id admit but at the same time when the shops sold it you did have to be 18 to buy it.

Like at the moment its hard to get as cant buy in the island only buy it online so again you need be 18 as you a credit card to order, once you have ordered you cant order to much as you then get the attetion from customs. They limit you to 2packets before they start asking questions about dealing it.

So when you do think about it you do need be 18 to buy spice its hard to get into the island. The only spice really in the island is what some people have ordered and what ever people have left.

And people are going of on one about spice but its not the only legal high over here there are loads that do the same effects as drugs yet everyone is moaning about spice.

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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by kiwis kitten on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 9:14 am

What is Toot and F2 Killer?? (think i have those names right) :)




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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by killer on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 9:22 am

Never heard of those kk thinking more doves, Borsalvia lotus, THC smileys, Ebomb, bor reload (same effects as speed) and space E powder they are just some of the other legal highs which you can still buy over here.

The ones i have just mentioned are way more dangerous to you than spice so i want to why/how justify banning spice yet allowing more dangerous legal highs to be sold and legal?

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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by kiwis kitten on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 9:24 am

Thanks :) I have heard F2 and Toot mentioned on Facebook....

U have a very valid point.....




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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by Fast Robert on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 9:29 am

It's not OK because it's legal. Is an 11 year old whisky legal? So if the kids are saying that it's because the adults are not understanding the difference between 'legal' and 'toxic'.

Of course labels should be put on the product.

People bang on about the 'nanny state' when sensible bans on anti social habits come in, but banning anything on the premise that 14 year olds can get hold of it is cobblers.

Doesn't matter, sweep it all under the carpet. Anyone who takes drugs is a lowlife scum. Bang em up and throw away the key. Job done.
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by wayside on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 10:28 am

Nobody has said the using of it makes anyone a lowlife,

there are laws in place covering all booze and medicines, these products are not governed at all and thats whats wrong,

You can not legally buy a packet of 12 Parecetamol from a grocery shop here because our outdated law bans the sale (except by pharmacy) of medicines that have ingriedients not on the OK List which is about 50 years old, yet it seems OK to sell products that are at least imitating illegal drugs, that cant be right.

If these items have any medicinal claims then they should be banned under the existing law.
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by Fast Robert on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 11:06 am

But if the existing law is a*rse-about-t1t, based on some old wives tales then the whole thing needs rethinking. I agree that there should be regulation, can't you see my argument? If we can do it for other dangerous substances like booze, why not for eveythng else?

What makes alcohol so special? IT KILLS KIDS FFS isn't that enough for you to want it gone from society forever?
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by killer on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 1:48 pm

Fast Robert you keep bringing up alcohol and kids ever thought that the parents of these kids should step in because 9 out of 10times these parents no their kids drink do drugs (legal/illegal) yet do nothing apart from moan about it maybe its time these parents got of their moaning backsides and did something about it.

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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by Fast Robert on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 2:02 pm

yes killer, unfortunately they think it's someone elses problem, the parents are first to call for a ban, but if they're kids how the hell are they getting it?

Some adult somewhere is giving the stuff to children. That's where the blame lies.
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Re: Legal Highs to be banned

Post by killer on Tue 18 Aug 2009, 2:12 pm

Well like i said earlier spice ain't the problem its like you said kids with alcohol and other legal highs which are far more dangerous than spice yet people think spice is the only legal high on this island and what there kids are taking but since the shops were banned people are buying more dangerous legal highs like i mentioned earlier.

Then we have the bigger problem when you ban the legal stuff your going to have them on the real stuff which unfortunately at the moment in time is easier to get over here, and as its getting harder to buy the legal highs the price is pretty much the same as the real stuff so your a kid you've got money what you going to do buy legal or real and get a bigger kick out of it.

i know for a fact alot of people have gone to the illegal as its now the same price as legal all because they banned shops from selling spice.

So we have banned spice and have made things worse of in the island with real drugs.

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