Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

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Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by kiwis kitten on Mon 01 Jun 2009, 5:36 pm

A SUB-STANDARD police officer with a criminal record has been put back on the streets by the Home Department. PC Stuart Allan (pictured), who was convicted of assault, has had an appeal upheld by politicians and been reinstated into the force - even though his chief officer does not want him. He was required to resign following an independent inquiry which was critical of his handling of a woman, which led to the assault case. However, a lay appeal panel headed by deputy Home Department minister Francis Quin and including Deputy Jenny Tasker and non-States member Andrew Ozanne, concluded that there was not enough evidence to stop PC Allan from keeping his job. All three declined to discuss why they wanted to retain PC Allan. Rosemarie Holt, 65, who was left with bruising to her arm and cuts to her wrist following an incident with the officer in March of last year, said the decision ‘beggared belief’. She even received an apology and a bouquet of flowers from chief of police George Le Page, who stated that PC Allan’s conduct towards her ‘fell well below the standard that the community of Guernsey and myself expect’.

Guernsey Police declined to comment at this stage.

(this is guernsey)

I personally don't think he should have his job back...

What are your views??




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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by bug1 on Mon 01 Jun 2009, 6:24 pm

Where's the logic? He wouldn't qualify to join the force with his conviction so how can he remain!!!!!!!! :x :x
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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by karma on Mon 01 Jun 2009, 6:38 pm

.....the police have absolutely no ideas why people don't respect them any longer......George Le Page should be bought to book....the first time this guy goes to make an arrests someone is going to throw this back at him....my father (ex metrapolitain policeman) will be turning in his grave!!!!
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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by technophobe on Mon 01 Jun 2009, 7:37 pm

This is unbelievable, and the people who made the decision should be ashamed of themselves.

What on earth is going on with the States, it's just one thing after another, and so many bad decisions and displays of incompetence that it's really not funny anymore.

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by Dell on Mon 01 Jun 2009, 7:39 pm

Least said the better....... IMO.

I am sure there will be more front page headlines in the Press attempting to sensationalise the story!!

I feel sorry for the two people involved, Rosemary and Stuart, their families and friends who will all be upset by the style of reporting adopted here. It is not big and it is not clever........






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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by technophobe on Tue 02 Jun 2009, 7:22 am

Dell wrote:Least said the better....... IMO.

I am sure there will be more front page headlines in the Press attempting to sensationalise the story!!

I feel sorry for the two people involved, Rosemary and Stuart, their families and friends who will all be upset by the style of reporting adopted here. It is not big and it is not clever........






.

Can you advise why anyone should feel sorry for him? He comitted an assault on a female pensioner, was ignorant enough of the law to plead not guilty, was duly convicted, refused to accept the conviction so appealed against it, the conviction was upheld, was essentially booted out of the force as the chief officer didn't want him anymore, then appeals to keep his job and three buffoons from the home department find in his favour.

It is clear that this man has no respect for the legal process, and what kind of desperate character is he if he wants to work in job where he knows he's not wanted due to his superiors thinking he is incapable. Do we really want people like this as police officers? Would his evidence be trusted in a future court case? I can imagine the fun that someone like Peter Ferbrache could have with him, he'd discredit him with no problem whatsoever.

He should do the honourable thing and find another job.

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by Dell on Tue 02 Jun 2009, 7:27 am

Not knowing all of the facts makes it difficult to be judgemental, but I can see your viewpoint. It will be difficult to place him where he will not have contact with the public, as you say, the advocates will probaby have a field-day with him in court discrediting him.

He should do the honourable thing and find another job.

Who knows what the future holds, time will tell!!


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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by Dell on Tue 02 Jun 2009, 8:34 am

The appeal panel was apparently unlawful as it should have been elected deputies sitting on it, so they have to reconvene with deputy Laine sitting with the other 2 from original panel.

From Island FM news....



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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by karma on Tue 02 Jun 2009, 9:17 am

......words fail me at the attitude of our 'elected' states persons - one law for them and another for us!!!!
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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by plimmerton811 on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 8:33 am

karma wrote:......words fail me at the attitude of our 'elected' states persons - one law for them and another for us!!!!

Sorry I must ave missed something could you please explain the above commen, mainly is the excop an elected states person, I am almost seriously confused.

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by karma on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 9:31 am

This should 'un-confuse' you.....

kiwis kitten wrote:A SUB-STANDARD police officer with a criminal record has been put back on the streets by the Home Department. PC Stuart Allan (pictured), who was convicted of assault, has had an appeal upheld by politicians and been reinstated into the force - even though his chief officer does not want him. He was required to resign following an independent inquiry which was critical of his handling of a woman, which led to the assault case. However, a lay appeal panel headed by deputy Home Department minister Francis Quin and including Deputy Jenny Tasker and non-States member Andrew Ozanne, concluded that there was not enough evidence to stop PC Allan from keeping his job. All three declined to discuss why they wanted to retain PC Allan. Rosemarie Holt, 65, who was left with bruising to her arm and cuts to her wrist following an incident with the officer in March of last year, said the decision ‘beggared belief’. She even received an apology and a bouquet of flowers from chief of police George Le Page, who stated that PC Allan’s conduct towards her ‘fell well below the standard that the community of Guernsey and myself expect’.

Guernsey Police declined to comment at this stage.

(this is guernsey)

I personally don't think he should have his job back...

What are your views??
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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by plimmerton811 on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 9:09 pm

Is this the one that stopped the lady along Fort Road. There was some issue about her conduct as well as his.
There is a precedent in the Gsy Police for employing an officer with a criminal conviction.
If he were to punch a prisoner in the mouth then gets convicted he deserves to go. Bruising and a cut to the wrist is an assault but under what circumstances were they sustained.
In todays world the fact that the Chief doesn't want him is neither here nor there because he has to have a really good reason to dismiss him and the cop is allowed to follow due process to keep his job.
Agree he becomes a liability for some time when dealing with the public.
karma I still do not understand where the law for one and the law for another comes into it. The man has followed due process as you and I can do so where is the favouritism you hint at.

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by karma on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 9:12 pm

different views for different people I guess.....
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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by plimmerton811 on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 11:55 pm

karma wrote:different views for different people I guess.....


I accept that we have different views but I always get nervous with the gsy/forum view that it is favouritism or states do what they want, especially if that may not be the case and in this instance I sincerely think that the view of one law for them one for us is wrong. There does not appear to be the eveidence to support that view. Due process has been followed which is the cop's right and we do not have access to what was said at the hearings.

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by karma on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 12:20 am

Quite so - I agree we don't have access - and that is what worries me -a policeman is convicted of assault and fined by the courts - he is asked to resign. The Chief of Police sends a letter of apology to the lady concerned - So who is being undermind? The Chief of Police is for one and the Courts are as well - and we the public are left wondering whether if we had a criminal conviction (which this policeman has now through the courts) would 2 members of the States stand up for us and say we should keep our job??? I really can not see this happening......Why should the States get involved when we have perfectly capable people doing their jobs? and what makes them feel that they know better than the Courts and the Chief of Police (who was his boss and probably knows him better than anybody else in a working capacity)??? Also our elected States representatives are not trained in the ways of the law they are basically 'lay' people from all walks of life who put themselves forward for election on promises to make our Island a good, fair and safe place to live - and who should really leave matters of law to those who spent a lot of time qualifying....
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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by plimmerton811 on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 3:35 am

Not at all, if you went to court got a conviction and your boss said sod off you would have a right to appeal. The court is not undermined it did not say "convicted and you lose you job". How many people in civvie street have similar convictions and work, why should this guy, in a minor instance be punished twice. As I said earlier there is some dispute about how granny acted when arrested. He may have held she pulled, well there's a bruise. Some people bruise easy. Struggle against cuffs and LOL you may very werll pick up a scratch
The lay people are not looking at the law, they did not overturn the crim' conviction. They made a decision on information presented to them about whether he could keep his job. His job not overturn the conviction.
Put him in a civvie roll in the station, he need never see the light of day nor the public again so that would remove the allegation issues.
George is not perfect, he is human, could be a clash of personalities. Remember this was a high profile case and who had to eat humble pie?, george did, so is he pi**ed off you bet he is.
Remember the precident for a cop keeping his job with a conviction for assault giving similar injuries is there and as I recall the critiscism of that cop was he should have used cuffs and followed the rule book with a full arrest. Which is what this one did.
Forums have the ability to make sane people lose their sense of perspective or even read half a story and lose their Karma.

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by mikey73 on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 5:18 am

The Guernsey Press should be ashamed of themselves for their reporting of the matter, sensationalism and vindictive reporting have blown this all out of proportion. From what I understand the policeman was only doing his job and was verbally and physically abused, Now I dont know about anybody else but I dont go to work to get that. i wonder if the lady involved got any compo I bet she did. and what for abusing a policeman. Thats all too easy nowadays.

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by technophobe on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 10:15 am

mikey73 wrote:The Guernsey Press should be ashamed of themselves for their reporting of the matter, sensationalism and vindictive reporting have blown this all out of proportion. From what I understand the policeman was only doing his job and was verbally and physically abused, Now I dont know about anybody else but I dont go to work to get that. i wonder if the lady involved got any compo I bet she did. and what for abusing a policeman. Thats all too easy nowadays.

Should you be posting whilst you're on duty PC mikey73?

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by karma on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 10:36 am

I was thinking the same about you PC Techno :-)
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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by technophobe on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 12:37 pm

:fight2:

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by karma on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 2:31 pm

8) :-) 8)
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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by mikey73 on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 10:08 pm

Should you be posting whilst you're on duty PC mikey73?[/quote]

Not a policemen or even a guern, just a regular visitor to your islkand. But I find this attitude worrying it is no wonder we have problems like this when the police, are under constant pressure.

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by mikey73 on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 10:11 pm

Shocked cant spell either-

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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by bug1 on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 10:13 pm

I heard the lady had a black belt in Tai Chi,so he had to restrain her!
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Re: Back in the job - the PC his chief does not want...

Post by karma on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 10:18 pm

mikey73 wrote:Should you be posting whilst you're on duty PC mikey73?

Not a policemen or even a guern, just a regular visitor to your islkand. But I find this attitude worrying it is no wonder we have problems like this when the police, are under constant pressure.[/quote]

Spell Police have overlooked the mistake :) .............

...............this is a forum where we discuss all manner of things (as you will have noticed) and I for one am a bit worried about the way this whole debacle has been handled - but we tend to discuss and file it away - so it is quite healthy.......We could discuss the soaps on TV but real life is more appealing if a little 'messy' at times...........don't you agree :thistle 1:
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