States to track all your travel

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States to track all your travel

Post by GD on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 6:37 pm



TRAVEL plans and the personal details of every holidaymaker, business traveller and islander entering or leaving Guernsey will be tracked under new ‘big brother’ security proposals.
The package, which has alarmed civil liberties groups in the UK, is part of Treasury and Resources’ capital prioritisation report - which plays down the scope of the supervision.
And a member of the Home Department has accepted that the Billet d’Etat details are skimpy.
News of the extent of the clampdown was broken by The Telegraph over the weekend.
Anyone departing the UK and the Bailiwick by land, sea or air will have their trip recorded and stored on a database for a decade.
No reference is made to that in the Billet, which simply claims it is not an option to do nothing - but says nothing to justify that.
Home Department member Sam Maindonald (pictured) insisted, however, that the island had no other option,
She admitted that its brief proposal in Treasury’s capital prioritisation report in which it asks for the money to spend on an IT system to handle the scheme, was short on detail.
‘This is not something we are choosing. We are being forced into it, but for a good reason. If we don’t take it on, you won’t be able to travel from Guernsey,’ she said. (from thisisguernsey)

One million pounds initial cost, is it worth it?


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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Thistle on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 6:55 pm

nope just another excuse to spend our money.the way things are going they will be fitting webcams in all our homes to find out how often we go to the loo,have sex,eat chocolate or have a row etc
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Spirit on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 7:03 pm

Another stupidly thought out security plan. Before you travel anywhere, you will have to give your travel plans with at least 24 hours notice. The anarchists will simply enter lots of travel plans which will not be carried out, therefore making the database meaningless.


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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Digger on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 7:38 pm

24 hours notice "how " right say i had a boat and on the way back from work decided to go to Jersey/France/wherever that night ,you could not do it because you would have to notify them why do we have to follow other places like sheep. or on the other hand you tell them you are going on fri to jersey and it blows up to a gale 9 so no chance of traveling would you then have then cancel your booking with them . What a stupid idea. "Big brother stinks"


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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by karma on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 7:40 pm

George Orwell Rocks!!!!!
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by bug1 on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 8:05 pm

Why can't we just opt out of our "special channel" in gatwick and be treated like any other traveller? It would just mean carrying our passport or am I being too simplistic?
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Thistle on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 8:38 pm

too simplistic bug1.anyway not everybody has or can afford a passport.
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by karma on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 8:44 pm

Back to ID cards methinks :x
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by bug1 on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 10:56 pm

Thistle wrote:too simplistic bug1.anyway not everybody has or can afford a passport.

It would be cheaper to issue free passports to those few who don't have them than spend a million on this other nonsense
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by karma on Mon 16 Mar 2009, 11:06 pm

Calm down dear ~ it's only money !!!!! correction OUR money!!!!
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Dave Jones on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 9:36 am

Once again this is something else that is being forced upon us, The UK government are saying that they want to track who is coming through their ports, therefore if we wish to travel to the UK or the EU then we have no option other than to comply with this new directive. We won’t know the full implications of this until we have seen all the details. It is in my view control freakery on a massive scale and when you think they cannot even prevent hundreds of illegal immigrants every year going through English sea ports in the backs of Lorries you have to ask what on earth is the point of tracking honest travellers going through proper channels? When you consider all the security cameras, the information already held by the authorities and now the tracking of our movements, you have to wonder what the fight for freedom during the Second World War was all about. Most of the rights, freedoms and liberties of the British people and in many similar ways those of our people have been taken from them by their own government and the ever pervading foreign power that is the EU commission.

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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by karma on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 12:04 pm

Shows us just how 'special' we are now!!!!! NOT What a good way to dig a larger Black Hole!!!! Dare I say it but when you go to England/France on condor the security is poitively non-existent.....but give it time!!!!
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by plimmerton811 on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 7:04 pm

It is in my view control freakery on a massive scale and when you think they cannot even prevent hundreds of illegal immigrants every year going through English sea ports in the backs of Lorries you have to ask what on earth is the point of tracking honest travellers going through proper channels?

"Honest travellers going through proper channels" There lies the problem. This will probably be a reaction to terrorism and by logging travel plans security forces can then throw a suspect name into the system and find where they have been goping. British Nationals are travelling to fight or attend training camps in Afghanistan. If they say they are on their hol's how can the Gov.t check that.

Let's not get too carried away with our own importance, the likes of Karma, Digger, Thistle (I hope) will not raise enough concern for the security forces to pop the name in a data base to see where they are off to. Being a high powered Politician with outspoken tendencies Dave might cause concern but I think a political assasination would be quicker and less trouble.

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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Fast Robert on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 8:11 pm

We are going to have to face the fact that the world has shrunk and that national boundaries have less and less meaning. This is unappealing to many, and I think quite understandably. However, the technological advances - from cash machines to RFID - really means the beginning of the end of 'privacy' like we've known it before.

All data used through information technology is stored and ultimately accessible. That means everytime we travel we are data in the system. We can't really fight this evolution. We can't have our cake and eat it.

The best we can hope for is that democracies remain transparent and cooperative. The last thing we need is this constant harbinging of terrorist threats and national enemies. There will always be criminals. I bet Dick Turpin was considered an 'Al Qaeda' type in his day in t'Yorkshire Post.

There is an idealistic vision that the UK can be exempt from this database age. There is an idea spread from certain quarters that somehow New Labour have instigated a whole mass of useless management and incompetencies. Let's look back in history - oh - this is all new technology, how can we possibly compare it to anything - the scales are massive - the ideas of storing and tracking data on this scale was unimaginable (at a practical level) even a decade ago. And blaming any government of fouling up is the same as blaming the 'useless' private companies that are doing the work.

There can be no jingoism in trying to implement inevitable securities in the form of data transfer to modern life. We do not live in a village anymore. We've always logged our passport numbers haven't we?

What is galling is that we have to 'book' potential movements. Eh? You can have my iris but phuck off if i'm going to tell you where i'm going to be without actually doing it.


Last edited by Fast Robert on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : usual nonsense)
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by bug1 on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 8:18 pm

Let the UK if it must BUT we don't need it because we're not a feasible target.
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by karma on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 8:19 pm

What's also galling is they put it in place and then charge the tax payer!!!!!
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by plimmerton811 on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 8:33 pm

And why aren't we a feasible target.

55,000 people clinging to a rock, isolated by sea, no land links. Part of the UK yet far enough offshore to be isolated, Hitler thought we were worth a second look.

Imagine the scenario, withdraw from Afghanistan and Iraq, release all terror suspects or we will let loose a germ warfare agent on a section of your country that will mean the land will become unhabitable for 50 years. This is not an idle threat.

Any of the Islands are easy to enter from France. What a fantastic way to demonstrate ruthlessness and intent. Yet not harm mainland UK. Would also sort out the offshore finance system but that's another issue apparently.

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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Fast Robert on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 10:15 pm

I don't buy into nightmare scenarios. They are a tool for rapidly introduced legislation for controlling and monitoring the population.

That is the issue to which I would fight this implementation.

However, I stand by its inevitability. The angle that it has to be fought at is to ensure the safety of the data, the motives behind storing it, and the transparency behind the democratic processes that allows a select few to have access to it.
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Chok Dee Ja on Wed 18 Mar 2009, 12:16 pm

plimmerton811 wrote:And why aren't we a feasible target.

55,000 people clinging to a rock, isolated by sea, no land links. Part of the UK yet far enough offshore to be isolated, Hitler thought we were worth a second look.

Imagine the scenario, withdraw from Afghanistan and Iraq, release all terror suspects or we will let loose a germ warfare agent on a section of your country that will mean the land will become unhabitable for 50 years. This is not an idle threat.

Any of the Islands are easy to enter from France. What a fantastic way to demonstrate ruthlessness and intent. Yet not harm mainland UK. Would also sort out the offshore finance system but that's another issue apparently.

Ive always thought that such a easy target and good publicity.lets not forget terroism is about publicity and making life uneasy for your intended targets

And yes the idea of wanting to release terrosist does work as the ira knows with Mr Blair

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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Thistle on Wed 18 Mar 2009, 3:13 pm

must be a while since you were in guernsey plimmerton or you know something we dont.the figure being quoted these days is about 65,000 people hanging on a rock .
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Chok Dee Ja on Wed 18 Mar 2009, 3:27 pm

Thistle wrote:must be a while since you were in guernsey plimmerton or you know something we dont.the figure being quoted these days is about 65,000 people hanging on a rock .

Tse Tse

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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by karma on Wed 18 Mar 2009, 6:33 pm

Terrorists and would be terrorist must be laughing their socks off.....since 11/9 they have managed to terrorise every nation into making rules upon rules upon rules........so they haven't won?? go tell that to the marines.....we are no longer free to do what we want when we want (sometimes I think it is playing into every government's hands - every rule they bring out is in the name of terrorism or global warming)......
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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Zac on Thu 19 Mar 2009, 10:34 am

What price human rights, what price civil liberties, what right do "they" have to even consider taking our rights away? Governments and functionaries are SUPPOSED to be our servants - we are their paymasters, not that one would believe it! Tracking rapists and paedophiles and terrorists? What a complete load of tosh!

Subjugation of the masses - and what are our States members going to do about it? With a few exceptions, I expect they will simply roll over and swallow the bitter pill, in the belief that Big Brother and it's Civil Servants know best.

I am certain that there is far more behind the plans than we are being told - tax gathering and compulsory ID cards to mention just two. Illegal immigrants can move to the UK from Calais at a moments notice, apparently without hindrance, but we won't even be able to take a last minute trip when the mood takes us. Why on earth should law abiding citizens have to give an account of their movements?

At a starting price of £1,000,000 per annum even for little Guernsey, plus substantial additional carrier charges (it is proposed that all carriers will install passport readers and data terminals), this is a real little money earner for the jobs-worth Gestapo security industry which has been allowed to creep up on us like cancer!

Must nip to the shops – Oh blast! I have not filed my travel movement request. Now where did I put my Ausweis?

Don't forget that emails and internet postings are now monitored and stored by Big Brother too!

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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by Chok Dee Ja on Thu 19 Mar 2009, 1:51 pm


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Re: States to track all your travel

Post by plimmerton811 on Fri 20 Mar 2009, 8:50 am

Thistle wrote:must be a while since you were in guernsey plimmerton or you know something we dont.the figure being quoted these days is about 65,000 people hanging on a rock .

I stand corrected, I couldn't remember if it was 55 or 65K. What's 10k between friends and if they cram anymore on the rock we'll all get very friendly.

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