Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Chok Dee Ja on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 2:57 pm

I never said that Guernsey was the reason,however there were definently failings with regards protection schemes and the availabilty of a vehicle for customers to lodge complaints eg a ombudsman and not a ex gfsc crony a independent authority to deal with investor complaints,do you not feel this should be a basic requirement from a off shore centre ?

The fact that you say the states dont want to use income tax funds and that banks were not prepared to back any such funds,may i ask whats changed as there is now a basis of a scheme in place,do you not think the regulators eg GFSC should have applied pressure to banks to have such a scheme in place prior to the landsbanki affair?

The reason i ask you how do you think the gfsc deal with some issues are i was talking to someone recently who has emailed the gfsc 37 times regarding a issue and they received 1 email of which the contents of that email was false.Do you find that satisfactory ? Seems lessons have not been learned since 1 The Equitable Life Fiasco 2 The Split Capital Warrants fiasco were many channel island residents lost large amounts of money sold by channel island advisors who are still in buisness today. Do you think that is acceptable ?


Last edited by Thistle on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : overquoting)

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Chok Dee Ja on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 3:03 pm

Btw Dave ive still not seen the current states pension fund values which you promised ?

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Dave Jones on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 3:48 pm

Pension Fund



It is currently around 650 million it has dropped about 250 million in 3 years and when the stock markets rise again as they surly will, it will start to climb again. We are in a global recession and it will not last forever. Charles who I have a lot of faith in is confident that it will return at some stage to its former value.



The fact is I am not privy to management decisions or information from the GFSC they have a very robust complaints procedure and I do know that they take all complaints against financial institutions very seriously. I canít be expected to comment on the e-mails they have or have not responded to, you must direct those questions to the GSFC. As for more outside scrutiny, we have proved on several levels that we are significantly better regulated than most of the countries that constantly attack us. Do we need ombudsmen I donít think we do as the GFSC is there to make sure customers are treated fairly, However if the States want to have an extra level of arbitration by having an ombudsmen then I wouldnít die in a trench over the decision. The regulators did apply quite a lot of pressure over several years trying to get the banks to fund a DPS but many did not want to take part in it because of the reasons I have stated in a previous post. What we can not do is make the scheme retrospective. On your other points I canít comment on the Equitable life issue as I donít know all the details, as for split funds it was the GFSC that brought this matter to the attention of the UK regulator and HM treasury.

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Fast Robert on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 3:55 pm

Dave Jones said

"I read the report into the GFSC role in the Landsbanki affair and it clearly states that the Guernsey Financial Services Commission behaved quite properly in this matter, it is not our report it was carried out by a very respectable UK treasury official who was given the task to go over the events and timeline leading up to the collapse of this Icelandic bank."

But Michael Foot was MD of the FSA until 2004, so smack bang in the middle of the softly-softly regulatory practices that the FSA have been heavily criticised for. Is this the same Treasury that you accuse of being anti Guernsey, from a Government who you can't stand? Christ, I bet he's got good friends over here. What makes him the right person to help protect our integrity? And what do you think the LG depositors think about such a shoe-in? And the critics? All it shows is that 'behaving properly' is not really very adequate.

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Chok Dee Ja on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 4:00 pm

Dave your talking nonsense when you say the gfsc is there to make sure customers are treated fairly,they even state on their own website that they cannot assist in disputes and advise that customers use a advocate,regarding the split capital warrants people lost thousands of pounds with this product many sold by guernsey advisors and finance companies,regrding the emails im not asking you to make a judgement regarding a specific case im asking you what do you think of 37 emails being sent and with only one reply and that reply was false,dont you find that disturbing from the islands regulator?

The gfsc view on complaints

http://www.gfsc.gg/content.asp?pageID=341

a extract

There is no financial ombudsman scheme in the Bailiwick of Guernsey and the Commission has not been given the role of an ombudsman. It is not able to adjudicate in disputes between customers and regulated entities. Those considering lodging complaints with the Commission should always bear in mind the above limitations If you feel you have a justified complaint against a regulated entity and you have suffered a loss you should first raise the matter with the regulated entity itself. If this does not resolve the matter to your satisfaction you are advised to seek advice from a qualified Guernsey advocate (lawyer).

SO I THINK WE CAN AGREE THE STATES OF GUERNSEY DO NOT TAKE CARE OF THE INVESTORS AS YOU PREVIOUSLY STATED?


Last edited by Thistle on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : overquoting)

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Fast Robert on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 4:16 pm

They're only there to ensure that institutions are compliant
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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Chok Dee Ja on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 4:19 pm

Fast Robert wrote:They're only there to ensure that institutions are compliant

Correct and promote guernsey as a financial centre

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Dell on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 7:49 pm

Chok Dee Ja wrote:Correct and promote guernsey as a financial centre

At what cost in monetary terms?









.


"Lovely Jubbly - Cushty - Rodney, you plonker - This time next year we'll be millionaires!" Dell Trotter
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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Dave Jones on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 8:24 pm

Thatís your opinion, but you need to have someone with suitable experience in order to know what to look for. The [point is he was from outside the island and independant of us, also my reasons for not liking this sorry labour goverment is for many more reasons other than the treasury it has more to do with their constant attempts to interfearence in our affairs.


CDJ


I accept that the GFSC doesn't deal with individual complaints which is why I would not vehemently oppose an ombudsman. Customers are treated fairly by not having people who are unsuitable running financial institutions and do not have criminal records, in other words they have a duty of care to the customer which they have been shown to have carried out. as for the e-mails I donít know the context of them and therefore I cannot comment and in any event what I think doesn't matter, contact the GFSC and take it up with them.


ps you will have to talk to yourselves as i am away for a few days, back next Friday

DJ

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Chok Dee Ja on Fri 06 Mar 2009, 11:53 pm

Dell wrote:
Chok Dee Ja wrote:Correct and promote guernsey as a financial centre

At what cost in monetary terms?









.


no idea what it costs but thats their role.I think you can obtain full expenditure details on their site or on ggv site

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by Chok Dee Ja on Sat 07 Mar 2009, 12:25 am

Dave Jones wrote:Thatís your opinion, but you need to have someone with suitable experience in order to know what to look for. The [point is he was from outside the island and independant of us, also my reasons for not liking this sorry labour goverment is for many more reasons other than the treasury it has more to do with their constant attempts to interfearence in our affairs.


CDJ


I accept that the GFSC doesn't deal with individual complaints which is why I would not vehemently oppose an ombudsman. Customers are treated fairly by not having people who are unsuitable running financial institutions and do not have criminal records, in other words they have a duty of care to the customer which they have been shown to have carried out. as for the e-mails I donít know the context of them and therefore I cannot comment and in any event what I think doesn't matter, contact the GFSC and take it up with them.


ps you will have to talk to yourselves as i am away for a few days, back next Friday

DJ


You state that the gfsc dont allow unsuitable peopleto operate in the finance industry well how come most of the salesmen and finance companies who sold split capital trusts and warrants to lose huge amounts of money for customers are still advising today? And do you consider the management of landsbanki and some of their staff who openly lied to customers as suitable ?

What industry did Alan Jackson work in ?

The same applies to the mis-selling of endowment policies,how can these salesmen be classed as suitable ?

So you now agree that the gfsc dont deal with complaints. :)

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Re: Chief Minister threatened by angry savers

Post by plimmerton811 on Sat 07 Mar 2009, 7:06 am

Dave I have to disagree on the "GFSC they have a very robust complaints procedure and I do know that they take all complaints against financial institutions very seriously"

Having investigated and handled complaints within a financial institution I can say that the whole complaint handling system is not very good. I have worked in compliance and complaint handling in two very different jurisdictions and when I worked for the Banking Ombudsman (not in Gnsy) I have to say that it was an exceedingly fair system where on several occasions I totally disagreed with a bank and made them refund to a complainant where thya had previously told the complainant to take a hike.

Gnsy system is poor in that there is no independant administartor that can make the bank cough up when they are wrong. The GFSC monitor complaints it does not deal with complainants and only after one month. I do not recall that they actually adjudicate and make a bank pay.

Chok I will say that I have come across investors that have made complaints and I have to say that in my experience investors are willing to take the good years no matter what advice they get but do jump up and down in the bad years with exactly the same advice.

Gnsy without a doubt needs an ombudsman but that will not solve poor investment advice.


Last edited by plimmerton811 on Sat 07 Mar 2009, 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo's)

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