Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

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Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by GD on Mon 23 Feb 2009, 7:31 pm

THE £4.5m. a year funding of the independent colleges is under threat as budget pressures mount at Education.
Minister Carol Steere believes the money allocated to Elizabeth College, Ladies’ College and Blanchelande is unsustainable.
The department has a deficit of around £1.5m. on its £72m. budget and Deputy Steere is warning there could be some unpopular decisions ahead.
College funding is secure until 2012 under an earlier deal.
The music and youth services will also be under investigation.
‘I support any parent’s right to choose where they want to have their children educated, but if you choose the independent route you should pay the going rate,’ said Deputy Steere.
‘I don’t believe it should be subsidised by the state - the money could be better spent elsewhere.
‘I know in some parts that will be unpopular - and with the parents who pay for their children at those schools.
‘But the States needs to think long and hard - is it an appropriate amount?’ (from thisisguernsey)

So what do you think, should the private college's have funding?

Will it stop there?

or will the private junior schools get the same treatment....


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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Thistle on Mon 23 Feb 2009, 8:11 pm

if a child wins a scholarship to the college that should be paid by the states if the parents can't afford the fees.if parents choose to put children into private education they should not then expect the state to pay
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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Digger on Mon 23 Feb 2009, 8:16 pm

It should be means tested , the people who can afford to send their children to College should be made to support them , and to be fair to the less well off and give the children a chance in life there should be help for them.


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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Troy McClure on Mon 23 Feb 2009, 8:17 pm

I'd have thought that a scholarship to a private school should be funded by the school, not by the State.

I don't see any reason why any State funding should go to private schools; that said I don't know exactly how Guernsey's education system is set up, so these are general views rather than specific to the Deputy's comments.

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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by plimmerton811 on Mon 23 Feb 2009, 8:48 pm

The chances are that if the States do not subsidise the Colleges they may well disappear. That would not be to the benefit of the Island. It is good to have the alternative and has been said on these forums several times before it is not only the rich that send their kids to the colleges. Working class forgo luxuries to give their kids a college education.

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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Fast Robert on Mon 23 Feb 2009, 9:12 pm

No States money should go to independent schools. It is a well used loophole based on a throwback from medieval times. If the school wishes to give scholarships then it should pay for them through its own philanthropy. There is a massive distortion caused by the independent school sector. Why should people feel superior because they've saved up? The same standard should be available throught the state. it is entirely in the state's interest to educate its people to the best of its ability. Frankly any society that uses the independent sector to bolster its education results is lazy and irresponsible. It should be any society's first priority. A clever society is a healthy and motivated one.

Couple that irresponsibilty with the natural elitism that fee payers crave and you get a social division that takes generations to rehabilitate. It is so engrained in Guernsey that the arguments in favour for the 11+, for segregation, for undermining kids come as second nature.

If these schools fail because the subsidy is reversed then it shows how badly education has been managed. the fee payers have been getting away with too low fees and creaming the best for the benefit of the wealthy.


Last edited by Fast Robert on Mon 23 Feb 2009, 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos)
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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by falcon on Tue 24 Feb 2009, 3:35 pm


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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Fast Robert on Tue 24 Feb 2009, 3:53 pm

i thought the french-binary dictionary was hilarious!
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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by plimmerton811 on Tue 24 Feb 2009, 7:15 pm

Fast Robert wrote:No States money should go to independent schools. It is a well used loophole based on a throwback from medieval times. If the school wishes to give scholarships then it should pay for them through its own philanthropy. There is a massive distortion caused by the independent school sector. Why should people feel superior because they've saved up? The same standard should be available throught the state. it is entirely in the state's interest to educate its people to the best of its ability. Frankly any society that uses the independent sector to bolster its education results is lazy and irresponsible. It should be any society's first priority. A clever society is a healthy and motivated one.

Couple that irresponsibilty with the natural elitism that fee payers crave and you get a social division that takes generations to rehabilitate. It is so engrained in Guernsey that the arguments in favour for the 11+, for segregation, for undermining kids come as second nature.

If these schools fail because the subsidy is reversed then it shows how badly education has been managed. the fee payers have been getting away with too low fees and creaming the best for the benefit of the wealthy.


FR you are certainly against private education and I agree the state should do better and the biggest assett we have is our kids but that's as far as I can agree.

I suppose the way to look at it is why do the states not supply "college" education. Probably too expensive and why bother if it can be done by letting the private centres do it and just give a relatively small amount to keep it going.

If the states did take total control and make the colleges open to everyone who passes a certain level how would it differ from now. You say that it creates elitism, well it still would, and elitism is not craved by all parents only a few who have got their heads so far up their arses it ain't true and we all know who they are and take them for what they are. What about thiose who recognise that the state system isn't as good as the private system should we criticise them or are we just jealous.

As for the 11+ like it or hate it, it is a system that best suits Guernsey and the terminology pass and fail are in the dictionary and kids must get used to them cause they will come across them all to frequently, especially in todays performance driven society. The pressure put on kids is mainly from their dear ole' parents who have expectations which surpass intelligence, normally the parents intelligence, which they will disguise as "doing the best for my kids"

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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by GD on Tue 24 Feb 2009, 8:32 pm

PARENTS of children at the island’s colleges reacted with dismay yesterday at suggestions that vital States funding might be withdrawn.
And it also emerged that there is a split on the Education Department’s political board over minister Carol Steere’s suggestion that the £4.5m. subsidy could be better spent elsewhere.
Her deputy, Allister Langlois, distanced himself from the remarks and said that Education should not be spreading alarm and despondency among parents, pupils and staff.
The matter has not even been discussed by the board.
Ladies’ College principal Jo Riches also said that it was unhelpful to create alarm - especially since the whole funding issue in any event had to be reviewed for 2012.
Blanchelande College head Lesley Le Page said today that educating college students in States schools would actually be more expensive for the taxpayer.
Elizabeth College pointed out that the bulk of the money it received was used to support students going there via the 11-plus system.
Mother-of-two Susan Dumont, who has a son at Elizabeth College and a daughter at Ladies’ College, said she would hate to see the effect of such a loss. ‘It would create an elitist element and would not be good for the children at either college or for the island.’ (thisisguernsey)


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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Dell on Tue 24 Feb 2009, 8:36 pm

Hmmmm.... another disagreement within the Education Board!! Are there problems here that we need to be aware of?


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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by plimmerton811 on Tue 24 Feb 2009, 9:29 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but is that disagreements over funding of the colleges and closing of St Andrews School. Both are associated with a perception of being extra special for a select few. Isn't Steere against both. In her early days I believe she was anti the rich I hope that this past history is not clouding her current judgement.

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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Thistle on Wed 25 Feb 2009, 7:28 am

MINISTER WARNED AGAINST SPEAKING OUT OVER COLLEGE FUNDING



"Education Minister Carol Steere's being told to keep her mouth shut when it comes college subsidies….
Deputy Sam Maindonald's says the Minister was completely out of line
when she made her views public. Deputy Steere told Island FM yesterday,
she personally thinks the States funding given to colleges could be
better spent elsewhere. She also confirmed the £4.5million deal would
be reviewed next year, before it runs out in 2012. Deputy Maindonald,
who sits on the Ladies College Board of Governors, says the Minister's
speaking out of turn. She says Deputy Steere's not consulted with her
department, and her comments will only distress pupils. Education board
member Deputy Matt Fallaize says it could be difficult to scrap the
funding if the colleges are going to keep on taking in special
place-holders. In the current economic climate he says the subsidies
should be reviewed so education can be sure they're getting their
money's worth"


with grateful thanks to cable and wireless website
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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Fast Robert on Wed 25 Feb 2009, 8:46 am

plimmerton811 wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but is that disagreements over funding of the colleges and closing of St Andrews School. Both are associated with a perception of being extra special for a select few. Isn't Steere against both. In her early days I believe she was anti the rich I hope that this past history is not clouding her current judgement.

The idea behind rationalisation is not a bad one. The more kids you have in one school - to an extent - the more efficient it becomes to educate them.

The delivery, however, only focused on the economics, rather than how it would benefit future generations. It was the failure to communicate properly that made her look foolish. I supported keeping them open, but only because there seemed to be no provision to improve the recipient schools for the displaced children.

I support taking away subsidies for those that wish to opt out of state education, but investment is needed, again, in the rest of the system. Education is one of the few policy areas that must not be scrimped on. The more uneducated adults (Guernsey does very badly, pound for pound - I read somewhere once (need to find that source)) we produce, the more likely the inequalities will get worse. Some cynics would call it a deliberate ploy, certainly it used to be in the old days - keep the proletariat stupid and they can't find the arguments to say otherwise - I don't think that's the case now, but it certainly has vestiges of that thinking when you look at the arguments in favour of subsidising fee payers.

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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by plimmerton811 on Wed 25 Feb 2009, 7:10 pm

FR I think your arguement is flawed in that you are lumping all fee payers together.
I paid for college and I am no better than the next or worse than the other. I don't deserve a better school more than anyone else however I do deserve to have my children educated to a good standard (which we do agree on) as does any parent and I found that the Secondary school concerned did not hit the mark, hence off to a fee paying college. Incidently I am not rich and drink in the same local as I have done since being able to drink.

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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Fast Robert on Wed 25 Feb 2009, 8:07 pm

So the presumption I have to make is that the state is failing children. One of the arguments in favour of retaining this system is that 'we are a stable, low tax jurisdiction with a high standard of living, others are envious, people can choose etc'. So people can choose to have the state fail them or to pay for education?

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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by GD on Thu 26 Feb 2009, 9:20 pm

EDUCATION minister Carol Steere has defended her views after stating her belief that the £4.5m. subsidy to the island’s colleges could be better spent elsewhere.
Deputy Steere has come in for criticism from the colleges’ head teachers, parents and even members of her own department for airing her views in an interview last week.
But she hit back yesterday, saying she was responding to a question and would always give an honest answer.
‘I made it clear that I was expressing my own opinion and not that of the department,’ she said.
‘I could not be dishonest. I was asked the question and responded truthfully. I did not bring this issue up. The one thing that I would hope the public would respect with me is my principles. I will always give an honest answer.’
Education currently pays nearly £3m. a year for up to 364 students to attend the three private colleges on scholarships - contributing the pupil’s fees plus a little more than £2,000 as a subsidy.
The department also pays that same subsidy, totalling more than £1.5m, for every fee-paying student. There are currently approximately 400 spaces across the island’s schools, although Education could not say how many of these were in the secondary sector. (from thisisguernsey)


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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by brycet on Sun 22 Mar 2009, 1:44 pm

Why on earth should The States provide Primary, Secondary and Further education of a high quality funded through taxation and then SUSIDISE private education even more.

I am not against private education, but to use current terminology, It should be self funding.

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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by Spirit on Sun 22 Mar 2009, 1:54 pm

Because if they didn't, all of those kids would need full States funding. The cost per head to the taxpayer is vastly lower than the other schools


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Re: Steere sees better uses for the colleges’ £4.5m.

Post by karma on Sun 22 Mar 2009, 1:57 pm

I think the problem here is that some children are so bright they pass through to the College but their parent do not have the resourses to pay for them (most of the attendees of the Colleges are put there because their parents want them there and these should indeed be funded by the parents, not by taxpayers money) IMO not to subsidise the scholarship pupils would mean we are penalising them for being bright......so I guess a fairer system would be per pupil and not just a general grant!!!
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